Saturday, April 15, 2006

Be honest: who do you support?

M. Fay, an artist deployed to Iraq with the Marine Corps, witnesses a lot while working to capture the moments of war. And after so much talk about supporting the troops and not the war, he's just plain tired of all this talk; when really, our troops need the clearest message of support we can get them in a time of war. Here is an excerpt from his latest post;

"A theme I've found myself turning again and again to is the "I support the troops but not the war" mentality. I'm fed up hearing it. Here's my feelings and reflections on the subject. The troops are not impressed with what we see as an elitist self-serving feel good attitude. This is a statement of pity and nothing more. It's pathetic and pandering. "

"It reeks of political correctness. Marines returning from Vietnam were often greeted with outright animosity. Perhaps some of those now voicing this sentiment were guilty of this 40 years ago and are now trying to placate their own guilt."

"Inherent in this statement is a subtext that says we, the troops, are victims and they, the anti-war folks, are going to rescue us. It also suggests that they know better than us, that our visceral field experience has little or no value. We're either just a gaggle of country bumpkins hoodwinked into serving by socio-economic pressures, or knuckledragging cretin warmongers."

"The actual truth is something you'll never get from a Hollywood movie. The overwhelming majority of those serving are high school graduates, of high moral character and, based on the standardized military entrance exam, fall in the upper 50 per cent percentile group intellectually. We're educated, highly trained worldly men and women from all walks of life who've chosen freely our own path into the military. "

"In short, don't cry for me Argentina. Usually wedded to this "we're so sorry you got tricked into fighting" gestalt is an underlying belief that Iraqis, and by extension all Muslim cultures are incapable of democracy. I want to suggest that there could be a little touch of racism at work here. And all the Bush mislead us crap. Get over it. We are here. Leaving is not an option. "

"We're in the mission accomplishment mode and by extension only interested in what supports the mission. The cry of "havoc" has been shouted and the dogs of war let loose. Talk is at an end and the doing, the mission is afoot. We don't engage in the luxury of second guessing, or the liberty of political debate."

"We're only interested in one statement, "WE BACK THE TROOPS". Highly footnoted, carefully nuanced and qualified statements like "we support the troops and not the war" doesn't support us, it trivalizes us at best and at worst re-enforces the will and agenda of the enemy. "

"The war on terrorism is a war being fought tactically in Iraq, but strategically in the hearts and minds of America. "I support the troops, but not the war" is a little white flag being waved in another American head. The main weapons in the arsenal of the terrorists are uncertainty and fear. You might as well be loading another AK round into an insurgent's magazine. Saying "I back the troops" is the equivalent of saying you support us tactically and at the same time strategically."

"So next time you see a GI tell him what he needs to hear, "Kick Ass and Take Names." Or, just be honest with yourself and glare."

- This was strong, yes, and it's just what America needs to hear. Not every soldier can write as persuasively as M. Fay, and yet a good portion of them feel the same way. So really, if you are honest with yourself, what would you say to a U.S. soldier? Think about it. The support issue is relevant, so let's make sure we know where we stand!

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

M.Fay is ONE opinion. If you actually KNEW any soldiers yourself....or any Marines, then you would find very diverse opinions. Many soldiers themselves don't support WHY they are there. Here are some movies that have recently come out you should consider seeing:

Gunner's Palace: http://www.gunnerpalace.com/

Operation Dreamland: http://
www.occupationdreamland.com/

Also, you should read this guy's press page:
http://blog.justanothersoldier.com/?page_id=73

MANY Americans have friends and family serving in the military. And MANY of these Americans trust and support the military to do their job. The PROBLEM is they do not choose the job they're sent to do. The President (accompanied by all his lies) chose this war. It is inherently stupid to say you must support a mission, when that mission was wrong.

Anonymous said...

read this:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin
/PrintStory.pldocument_id=2002925025&slug
=snomarine12&date=20060412

Aaron Kinney said...

Why forsake those who have already given there lives for this cause? It's not a matter of whether it was a valid cause, I don't think it was now that I look back, but do we really want to withdraw and force the 2,000 deaths we have suffered thus far to be in vain?

I hope to God that that's not the case, and that's all I can do.

Anonymous said...

how many more soldiers have to die before we realize this was a mistake, and we have accomplished very little other than causing a civil war?

how many more have to die? to make all the others not have been "in vain?"

RobertDWood said...

Lol.
The death rate of US troops is falling, and has been for the past 6 months. Not many more are going to die. Not like that freaken many have died yet. 1% of an invasion force? That is incredible.

you should also read this guys blog
theearthcanbemoved.blogspot.com
and
http://secdefonline.blogspot.com/

If you start reading those two, I'll start reading just another soldier.

"The PROBLEM is they do not choose the job they're sent to do. The President (accompanied by all his lies) chose this war. It is inherently stupid to say you must support a mission, when that mission was wrong."

Its also inherently stupid to ignore evidence.
The soldiers are there because they fragging volunteered, not because they were drafted. They knew what was going on in the world, and they signed up to defend America and her people. This mission does both.

Good post Jen

Anonymous said...

fighting a war on the ground in iraq has little connection to "defending america and its people"

not that freaking many???
until you know someone who has died, and watched their family suffer, and watched a mother lose her home, and seend a child lose a father, don't tell me its no big deal.

have you enlisted Palm Boy? if you believe so strongly in this war, then please, go fight for it.

RobertDWood said...

Fighting a war against terrorists in Iraq is much better then fighting them in our streets.

Yes, the losses hurt. But ya know what? The 13,000 in Vietnam hurt too. And so did the 50,000 in Korea. And so did the 407,000 in World War II. And so did the 130,000 in World War I. And so did the 560,000 in the US Civil War. And so did the 13,000 in the Mexican-American War. And so did the 18,000 in the War of 1812. And so did the 25,000 in the American Revolution.

No, I have not enlisted. Praytell why that is so important.

Anonymous said...

the difference (with the exception of vietnam) is that all of those wars were necessary. of course, iraq is simply another vietnam. and we can hope, that our government will figure out how wrong this endeavor is long before it took in the case of vietnam.

you clearly have not seen firsthand the results of death in this useless ridiculous war.

if you are SOOOO supportive of this war. go fight in it.

RobertDWood said...

Can you explain how World War I was more important then Iraq? And how was the Mexican-American war more important? Or the Korean War?

"you clearly have not seen firsthand the results of death in this useless ridiculous war."

Ya know what? I've got 4 of my relatives over there, or have been over there in the last 6 months, or will be over there soon. And ya know what? They all think its important to stay there.
As for deaths, how do you know I have not witnessed it first hand?
Heres a question. If you had to have a brother or sister die, would you rather have go down fighting in the army, or would you rather have a car bomb take them down on a tuesday afternoon at their work?
Its better to be fighting them over there, so that those most capable of striking back can, and are.

And I'm not going to start on the useless war part.

Yes, I am supportive of this war. Maybe those fighting it need some defense from nameless flamers.

Anonymous said...

My fellow commenters, I write this much later than ye two but I believe that it must be said. War is hell, and no one knows it better than I do, no one sees sweat and blood that 'ave met with the dirt ye lie on hoping to the god ye love it's not ye final day. Trying to understand why men must attack and ravage each others homeland. No one sees the pain that reides within each wound that ye must now prodly bear for ye country. At how each one grows deeper and more painful with ye family contradicting what ye fight for. And then throwing politics into only brings salt to the wound. War is terrible, and with the primal human instincts to conqure(whether it be to justly bring independence and peace) or to bring ye self power like other dictators. It will always be here and with those who fought in any war. After great pain like that, it should be the homefront that loves and accepts the soldiers and what they do. And to leave politics out of it. If any of ye read this then I would love to hear ye perspective(especially palm boy's) No, I 'ave never walked with soldiers into battle, but I've been there and 'ave destroyed many. War once again is terrible, but it is a fact of life that we deal with and must accept the atrocities and the benevolent things that come from it. It is best however (coming from an ancient soldier) to leave Vietnam out of this. It shall only bring back memories that are better off dead. Like the many that made 'em.

Maverick

RobertDWood said...

Hey Jacob, you ain't to late.

War is hell. But like you said, it makes it a heck of a lot worse if those your fighting to defend are not supporting you, and even activly harming your mission politically. That is what I see many democrats doing.
So I stand up for the War, the mission, and the soldiers.

I wasn't trying to bring Vietnam in as a bad memory, I was just showing how well this war is going in contrast to many of the wars in the past. Vietnam was one of those, so it was there for contrast.

Jacob, can I ask how you found this site?

Anonymous said...

Good to hear from ye palm boy. I'm glad that ye understand the contrast between wars. And even as bad a memory as Vietnam was and still is to many, we must accept that it has happened. As well as we must accept our involvement in this war we now fight. I shall take the position of accepting it and I will firmly support the fight to free any country of fear and oppression.
For ye question I found this place accidentally and was immediately held to interest at a young woman taking a stand for America. Also it was a comrade that had a link that I hit without meaning.

Maverick

Anonymous said...

"how well this war is going?"

give me a break. seriously. give me a break? are you kidding me?

Oil is trading at 75$ a gallon.

the Americans are under constant attack.

the morgues in baghdad are overflowing.

the war-planners are turning on the secretary of defense.

we have spent billions and billions of dollars on unfinished projects.

the army can't retain its personnel at any level.

you seriously, must be kidding?

RobertDWood said...

The war is going on in an amazing fasion.

Oil: The reason oil is at a higher price right now is not due to the war, but to increaseing worldwide demand, particularly the US and China, Hugo Chavaz doing a soviet wanna be act, lack of refinery capacity, and the required switch to ethanhol fillers in the gas, rather then MTBE.

Americans are under constant attack from a propaganda machine with an agenda similar to your own. But not from terrorists. Our soldiers are doing and excellent job of protecting us.

The mourges are overflowing? Little evidence please.
Perhaps its because Saddam isn't putting them in mass graves any more. In any circumstance, it isn't the US soldiers doing the killing. Its the terrorists from outside the country.

Out of several hundred generals, 7 have said something negative about Rummy. Those closest to him, Myers and Franks, support him compleatly.

We have spent billions and billions of dollars on unfinished problems here in the US. New Orleans and Missispi anyone?

The army is not have problems with recruitment or retention. The other branches are exceeding their projections.

I am not kidding, those there are facts.

Anonymous said...

the morgues:
http://chicago.indymedia.org/newswire/display
/71567/index.php

army retention:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/10/news
/officers.php

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa
/localnews/news8/stories
/wfaa060407_lj_armyrecruitment.12b56ba8.html